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Humble request for advice
#1
Hello everybody and a belated happy new year.
Some may remember a couple of discussions I initiated last year concerning the inexplicable differences between those who go fast and those - myself first - who don't. Between then and now I topped at world #9 in the RSR Formula 3 PRO ranking, and at #17 in the popular Formula Abarth PRO ranking list. I also recently reached 500 points the SRS rating, which shows how far you can go by racing clean and fair, without actually being fast...

I quote these results not to boast about my ability, for it is evident that, compared to the fast guys, I have none. I do so in the hope of doing away with suggestions like "use all the track", "watch videos on youtube" or "try to follow AI at 100%". Been there, done that, a million times, so we need to move forward.

I am back with essentially the same question. These days I am racing the Ford Cosworth RS500 DTM, a car which I personally find nearly impossible to drive. I constantly have the feeling of driving on soap, or on ice - the minimum distraction is immediately punished with a spin. 

Here is a good lap for me. https://youtu.be/pIA0WxmP0nY It is a low 2:06 at Mugello, essentially as fast as I can go there. By watching the video I see where I could probably shave one/two tenths (exit of turn 1) and another couple of points where I could save a little time. Maybe half a second at the very best? Yet, I hope that the feeling of driving on ice comes through the video - any faster at turn in, or at exit and I would just fly away. Please also note that the low revs in some turns are not a choice - given you cannot change gear ratios in the setup, those low revs are the best option.

Ha. Ha. Ha. Those who win the server 1 races I participate in lap CONSISTENTLY 3.5/4 seconds faster. Their best lap is often FIVE SECONDS faster than mine. As I said in previous posts, this is not only gigantic, massive. It is quite simply inexplicable, for me. But I won't bother with that any more.

I am just looking for suggestions to understand what I could change in my driving style in order to gain perhaps one second, one and a half? 

Thanks in advance.
  _________________________
An Old Dog Learning New Tricks
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#2
I'm doing high .03s on Mugello myself, but there are some getting under the 2 minute mark on this track (way above my pay grade, for sure). From your video you suffer from much of what I seem to be suffering from, which is not being perfectly smooth during most turns, and losing grip fairly often.

I have not yet dialed in my setup for this car in a lot of ways and I'm still messing with it. But one thing I noticed right away is that you might benefit at least a bit, by lowering your gear ratio one tick so you are redlining on the straight and using more of 5th gear. Outside of that, I'd love to hear what folks doing 2.01s and 1:59s(!!!!) are doing differently than us!
Tutorial on how to use Autodesk Mudbox and Adobe Photoshop to make custom liveries! https://tinyurl.com/yaetz4qz
Grab my PDash Skins (an Assetto Corsa HUD app) here: https://tinyurl.com/y95ewubz
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#3
What changes have you made to the setup?
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#4
Me? I think I've slightly adjusted camber and tire pressure, the gear ratio thing mentioned above, and using Softs for the first time this morning. Dunno about Pete, of course. Big Grin
Tutorial on how to use Autodesk Mudbox and Adobe Photoshop to make custom liveries! https://tinyurl.com/yaetz4qz
Grab my PDash Skins (an Assetto Corsa HUD app) here: https://tinyurl.com/y95ewubz
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#5
No the question was for the OP
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#6
(01-24-2019, 08:13 PM)Martin Smith Wrote:  No the question was for the OP

No changes in the setup.
  _________________________
An Old Dog Learning New Tricks
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#7
Yeah. The minimum is to always adjust tire pressure/compound, gearing, and aero. They're easy to do and can make a massive difference.
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#8
I am neither a master of this car nor a master of Mugello, but ...

When we talk about 5 seconds, setup is nothing. From what I see on the video the main problem is that you are not attacking the corners - you are more or less coasting through them.
You are losing at least couple tenths in T5 because you are not using all the road on the exit, thus not standing on the gas as soon as possible. You are losing I don't know how much time in T6 (and following corners) because you are exiting too narrow, thus not carrying any speed. Only from simple "Use all the road" you can gain at least 1.5 seconds. Also don't lift in the middle of the corner - it's a massive waste of time. Lift before if you need to, then pedal to the metal until a following corner entrance zone.

The essential question I would ask myself in such a situation is "Can I feel/catch a slide?" If the answer is no, I will never be able to be fast (which means to break late on the edge of grip, thus making some micromovements with your steering wheel and your feet to control the rear end; to open up the gas as soon as possible, thus controlling your pedal and steering to keep the wheels in the right direction etc.). If the answer is no, I can see two reasons for this:
1) I have bad force feedback settings (or steering wheel with none of it);
2) I can't feel (can't map it to what actually happens to the car) the torque (FFB) that a steering wheel gives to me.

Sometimes I can see guys streaming something on Youtube in racing simulators which brake as soon as the car starts sliding a bit without even thinking to correct it with a steering wheel - that's a completely wrong strategy. To be fast you have to control the slide.
Play with FFB, play drift, learn tracks (and their tricks), iterate as much as you can/need. I believe it's possible to catch a slide with anything equal to or better than Driving Force GT.

Upd. Also watch your steering angles - don't overturn front wheels. I have set up my new system recently and first try I had in AC was with 200 degrees (of steering wheel rotation) instead of my usual 420 due to some glitch with drivers - I was losing more than 2 seconds only because of this as I was turning front wheels too much, way past the top grip point.
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#9
Green tire temps and pressures do not = optimal grip. Also the aero can be changed but it doesn't make much difference on this car. However on real aero cars it makes a huge difference so I consider it one of the setup 'essentials'.
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#10
(01-24-2019, 09:51 PM)Roman Yakubovich Wrote:  I am neither a master of this car nor a master of Mugello, but ...

When we talk about 5 seconds, setup is nothing. From what I see on the video the main problem is that you are not attacking the corners - you are more or less coasting through them.
You are losing at least couple tenths in T5 because you are not using all the road on the exit, thus not standing on the gas as soon as possible. You are losing I don't know how much time in T6 (and following corners) because you are exiting too narrow, thus not carrying any speed. Only from simple "Use all the road" you can gain at least 1.5 seconds. Also don't lift in the middle of the corner - it's a massive waste of time. Lift before if you need to, then pedal to the metal until a following corner entrance zone.

The essential question I would ask myself in such a situation is "Can I feel/catch a slide?" If the answer is no, I will never be able to be fast (which means to break late on the edge of grip, thus making some micromovements with your steering wheel and your feet to control the rear end; to open up the gas as soon as possible, thus controlling your pedal and steering to keep the wheels in the right direction etc.). If the answer is no, I can see two reasons for this:
1) I have bad force feedback settings (or steering wheel with none of it);
2) I can't feel (can't map it to what actually happens to the car) the torque (FFB) that a steering wheel gives to me.

Sometimes I can see guys streaming something on Youtube in racing simulators which brake as soon as the car starts sliding a bit without even thinking to correct it with a steering wheel - that's a completely wrong strategy. To be fast you have to control the slide.
Play with FFB, play drift, learn tracks (and their tricks), iterate as much as you can/need. I believe it's possible to catch a slide with anything equal to or better than Driving Force GT.

Upd. Also watch your steering angles - don't overturn front wheels. I have set up my new system recently and first try I had in AC was with 200 degrees (of steering wheel rotation) instead of my usual 420 due to some glitch with drivers - I was losing more than 2 seconds only because of this as I was turning front wheels too much, way past the top grip point.
Thank you Roman. THIS is the kind of advice I was looking for. Although it seems impossible to me now, for every time I lose traction I simply spin out, at least I can understand what you are pointing at - controlling the slide. I believe I have good FFB settings, but I simply don't have (yet) the sensitivity, and the fine throttle/steering control required. I am still kind of on/off, all or nothing...

Having said that, I have the feeling that I AM indeed braking at the limit, often with a little tail braking to keep the car stable, and when doing that I feel that the car is already at the very point of losing traction. I need to focus on trying to catch/correct it if it does. 

Concerning overdriving (too much steering angle), the telemetry when I was on Iracing said that I was UNDERdriving, if anything... 

We live and learn. Thank you so much for your inputs.

(01-24-2019, 09:52 PM)Martin Smith Wrote:  Green tire temps and pressures do not = optimal grip. Also the aero can be changed but it doesn't make much difference on this car. However on real aero cars it makes a huge difference so I consider it one of the setup 'essentials'.

If not going by the "green", how does one understand if the tires are performing as they should?

(01-24-2019, 06:59 PM)Russell Sobie Wrote:  I'm doing high .03s on Mugello myself, but there are some getting under the 2 minute mark on this track (way above my pay grade, for sure). From your video you suffer from much of what I seem to be suffering from, which is not being perfectly smooth during most turns, and losing grip fairly often.

I have not yet dialed in my setup for this car in a lot of ways and I'm still messing with it. But one thing I noticed right away is that you might benefit at least a bit, by lowering your gear ratio one tick so you are redlining on the straight and using more of 5th gear. Outside of that, I'd love to hear what folks doing 2.01s and 1:59s(!!!!) are doing differently than us!

Thanks Russell  I was hoping you would pick this one up, as I have seen you in the races (Monza) and I know you are a no nonsense guy. Your 2:03 feels to me just as science fiction as the 1:59s... I cannot see for the life of me how being smoother with steering inputs would deliver one second, let alone the three that separate us. Tomorrow I will try your suggestion to up the final gear ratio, and report on progress  Thanks again
  _________________________
An Old Dog Learning New Tricks
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