[Andrea Piovanelli]

After the last race, I really feel I need some suggestions on defense and attack moves.
My passive and super safe behaviour lost me two positions in the last lap of the Toyota GT86 race of 13:00 GMT (which somehow didn't log into SRS, by the way), and I think it's time for me to "grow" a little in that side of the game...
I'm still slow compared to most of people around here, but when I'm matched with people around my skill I can only gain the position after a clear mistake and can't complete a efficient defense move, losing a lot of time and (often) the position after the turn.

[Christopher Magan]

As a fellow rookie, I don't think I can offer any useful advice since more seat time is probably the best way to improve your racecraft. However, here are some videos that I found interesting which shed some light on the thought process behind offensive/defensive moves. These Youtubers are quite popular, so you might already know them.
Empty Box's Sim racing 101 series: https://youtu.be/MCgdtiLYQfo
And several Driver61 videos: https://youtu.be/VHRAkIaWL_4 and https://youtu.be/o2WFz5DCoKk

[Marcin Dworog]

Well, i want to help you, but it isn't that easy to just remember a formula and just use it in race, also i'm not a pro, you need practice and race can go cluster-foo very quick.

First i would always advise to armor up and be ready for some iSalt, some folks can drive aggressive and then became *surprised pikachu face* when someone is done with their poo acts and takes matters on their hands (closing the door late, dive bomb ultra-late-braking, starting to bumping you from the middle of track when you are squished to the line). Try to keep your line and if somebody dies off you, then do what people mostly do, ignore iSalt boomerville. "If he/she dies, he/she dies"
Also don't look at your incident points, AC have simplified system and if race gets heated and light bumpy, it still gonna punish you like you did a war-crime. Just keep driving and have fun from the race, not the overalls standing.

Secondly, for attack try to get control of inside and outside lines without falling off them, it is very powerful to keep the line and use it for your advantage, mostly people with brain gonna choose to let you go and wait for your mistake to pass you, or simply successfully defend their line (don't be surprised, attacks are a risk). Most of time it is who ""owns"" which line at the exit of the corner, usually the inside, but S'es are more complex, due to having another corner after first so your lane changes to the other. For now, try to keep the line and don't fall off from it, accidentally closing the door late or just spinning without control. Later you can actually start trying to brake slighty later to get the inside control, but it isn't easy, you can overshoot the corner and do more harm than good, for now focus on lane control.

Third, Defense is opposite to attack, you pick the lane first and try to use it in the full, making opponent risk too much time and slowing down trying to find lane to pass you. Problem is, people are random, some gonna accept lane defense, some gonna dive bomb you forza like (just kill you) or think that their brakes are made from magic and gonna brake even later than you and fly forward under-steer. There is also allowance to give the incoming opponent inside line and expecting that they will overshoot it, so you do outside-inside-inside and exit with slight better speed giving you a chance to pick next lane before corner to defend it (it not always works, but when do, usually you go enough fast to pass the opponent). Also don't try to defend religiously, it often ends with someone faster than you, punting you to finish your forced defensive, it is always good to be clear with your defense, so opponent knows he now needs to think this through.

Fourth, the pace. Attack and defense matters only in race with someone who is your level. If you defend and you are slowing down someone way faster than you, observe him, if he clearly is ""sniffing"" your butt, give him pass, you gonna easily see him going into ""narnia"" quicker than you think, but do that only if you clearly see that opponent is fast, if it is like just 2 turns quick and falls behind, stay on defense. Also remember, attacking-defending is time wasting, everyone else driving race line gonna be faster than those who use 'Att', 'Def'. so don't be surprised when more people will show up.

Like i said in beginning, i'm not a professional, but i saw enough racing in AC, iRacing and had some online racing, to know the basics a bit. I hope it helps you and stay strong.

[Andrea Piovanelli]

That's very nice you took the time to write all of that, Marcin.
I'm not worried too much about incident points: a couple races ago I got 4 points from those, but they all were "shoulder vs shoulder" with another racer, with no safety risks at all (we were just a little too close). I know I'm usually self and tend to try and defend / keep the pace of slightly faster drivers behind me for some turns. When I see they're clearly faster than me, I try to find a safe place to let them pass, e.g. a slow turn I can take a wider line with no risks. It happens almost every race, as I tend to avoid pretty well the first turn carnage by approaching slightly slower than I could and coming up in front of at least a couple of very fast driver (that inevitably catch up in several laps).

On attacks: I'm practicing the line change, showing myself in the mirrors of the racer in front of me, sometimes with the intention of testing my stability as, at the moment, I don't really trust A) my late breaking and B) the opposite driver and I don't want to ruin their race, not even when my maneuver is (probably) legit. I never dive-bomb, but every now and then I make a mistake.

Defense: I'm loving how it is sometimes "effective" against a more skilled driver too; it's probably more effective against more skilled drivers, as they're more respectful (or they just see me sliding a little to keep the line and they just don't trust me enough to attack: but I like to think it's respect, can I?). I've got some good (from my point of view) battles with racers with enormous talent in the GT4 series, and it was just 3-4 turns where I felt I could be safe enough to defend (afterwards, honestly, I felt a bit sorry for slowing them down for half a lap... I hope I didn't look crazy).

Theoretically, I understand how that works, but I can't really complete attacking moves unless the other driver is clearly slower than me on the turn we're approaching: last race, I know (by watching the replay) I could gain two positions if only I were more aggressive, but my lack of experience prevented me taking advantage of their errors in the last turns of Silverstone.

And yes, I lose a lot of lap time just making moves for defense / attack and I see how it's best to let pass a faster driver.

Thank you for your time, I really appreciated and reading your reply is really helpful.

Have a nice day!

[Marcin Dworog]

Thanks for kind words, i more expected to be laughed for size of text i managed to randomly type here, i'm mostly used to be ignored or "lol, didn't read" folks. It really gives some good feeling for once, also it is nice to hear it helps a bit, i wish to help more, but it isn't easy to find good approach when English is my second language and my knowledge is always lacking on the topic. ("I know that i know nothing") Technically i shouldn't join discussions when you lack knowledge not backed up by evidence, but damn, i hate siting and observing too long.

I can only add that attack comes usually later when you are way more comfy with car you drive and know when you can start pushing, especially when you observe your upcoming opponent, on which turns he makes most mistakes, usually it is the place you searching for to do attacking moves. Most of the time it is his early braking or his fall off to outside lines to heavily (watch the grass, usually opponents touching it can spin, so be prepared for yellow flag situation!)

My experience from yesterday on modena is clear indication of what i said on that post, first race on it was never ending battle with 2 other guys, which one became typical iSalt driver, probably someone with anger issues, fact that still i'm not ba...[This user was been banned because some rich kid was angy]
Okay seriously now it was his own fault that he made mistakes, did late door closing and defended religiously, me and other dude, we had enough of his acts.
Next race at night was perfection of clear race, it only says to me all depends on people you drive with and it is always prepare for some iSaltening.

Also dive bombing is actually a interesting topic, because we all know dive bombing from typical online match-up where it means one dude going turn 1 with late braking, smashing through folks, but actual dive bomb refers to aggressive overtake of inside line of a corner, mostly perfect timed to control inside and only inside. It is hard maneuver due to how easy is to overshoot, that's why it is so often seen as suicide move.

About that defense, yes, it isn't easy for better driver, due to fact that they don't want to became a "missile/torpedo/weapon" (Person known for ignoring any safety for position, using your defense or situation to "accidentally" move you away from lane or whole track). Sometimes it happens in matter of a moment, sometimes opponent chooses (it is important to recognize the difference!) to do so, but mostly better driver also is more respectful and more patient to observe your driving style and searching for difference on cornering (early braking or overflowing to hard outside out of corner or even opposite, waiting for slower inside lock, so they can use racing line to simply sling-shoot near you, with better corner exit speed).

I hope i didn't bore again with my puzzle pieces of experience i gained with racing.
Stay strong and practice, better positions will come to you naturally with time.

[Tim Cullingworth]

Often the best way to overtake is to wait for the mistake.  Put the pressure on by driving close but don't touch.

Remember your first job behind someone is not to hit them, the second job is to try and find a way past them without hitting them.

The thing that often catches people out when looking for the overtake is that, due to the concertina effect you need to break earlier that the driver in front and not at your normal breaking point.  Also be aware that the guy in front might break a bit earlier as well, as they are trying to make sure that they don't make a mistake.

Also, just saying that you've stopped looking at the incident count is quite selfish as the other drivers might not have.  It has been argued that the IP make no différance on the site, and there is some truth to this, but I have lost places in the championship because of points lost due to people driving into me.

[Andrea Piovanelli]

What I was meaning, Tim, isn't I don't look at IPs, I'm always very careful not to cause any. And I agree on the fact my first concern is to avoid ruining the race to other players, at the moment, for me is more important finishing the race with no scratches than winning. Fighting for positions is something I need to learn / practice to be the safest possible doing that.

And yes, Marcin, you never know what's the skill or style of the other driver: in my opinion (and knowing my skill), I avoid aggressive moves that can be misinterpreted and cause problems. I prefer to stay behind.

[Marcin Dworog]

I guess Tim target more about mine post than yours Andrea, i get it.

I stopped looking at inc points simply due to how people drive, if i gonna be constantly mr. nice guy i never gonna have a race, just clocking in, like into a job. That's boring, and racing should give enjoyment, not be a chore. Adapt to environment, if environment if full of aggressive people, then hey, welcome to the jungle (rest of the song here).
At least now i can say 'stop' when someone is doing something rubbish and simply get more chances to get past him than just observe and waste time of my day. Drive fast, die last so it seems.
If you look at yours inc and throw a rage, then maybe it isn't worth it, this isn't pr0 invitation only place, people are random, you have to adapt or simply give up. In real life racing there is also trading paints and nobody goes nuclear about that, heck, viewers actually enjoy those battles.
I'm enjoying racing and few bad apples don't gonna make me squeak and be grumpy anymore, observe, adapt, overcome. It seems like a bad idea, but you can't change all the people. If this had to work better, whole AC needs a remake to apply proper collision point calculation, kinda like iSalt does, otherwise you have gran turismo sport level of laugh.
If points really, really, really matters for someone, that person can become a night grinder, where there are few people, so you can fix your points up to 102 easily. A lot of folks do that, did somebody nuked that? no.
Don't take my whole post angry Tim, but i'm simply feed up seeing that folks kill each other and me too and can be free, but if i do 1 thing badly then they scream "REPORT". It is simply less exhausting and more fun to just drive and ignore emotional baggage with inc points.

[Andrea Piovanelli]

I curse on a case by case basis. I mean, trading paint happens, it gives incident points but doesn't ruin the race for anyone. I avoid getting involved in "revenge moves" or with very dangerous drivers, I prefer to set back: they're gonna end out of the track, or through a wall, sooner than later, so there's no point in trying to match their aggression, in my opinion. Off course I curse (quite a lot) if someone bumps me or if I make a mistake, that's the "heat of the moment". Watching the replay and looking what went wrong after I calmed down (I usually calm down pretty fast) helps avoiding that kind of situation, understanding when you can have a safe and sporty battle and when you can't (for any reason: skill difference or just the fact they're completely careless).