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Rating Calculation?
#11
In my opinion the gap in level is huge between say 700 to 750 to 800, the value of the rating itself is like exponential. Nobody is 800 "randomly" but many are in the 700 just by participating a lot and not having too much stupid races. Takes a bit of time for your rating to settle, about 100 races at least.
The real meaningful stat is the win/top3 ratio, you can tell who s really good in a split regardless of the rating. It might be a bit easier to get wins regularly in daily's than other types of events but still the better indicator.
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#12
(08-29-2019, 08:48 AM)James Blint Wrote:  In my opinion the gap in level is huge between say 700 to 750 to 800, the value of the rating itself is like exponential. Nobody is 800 "randomly" but many are in the 700 just by participating a lot and not having too much stupid races. Takes a bit of time for your rating to settle, about 100 races at least.
The real meaningful stat is the win/top3 ratio, you can tell who s really good in a split regardless of the rating. It might be a bit easier to get wins regularly in daily's than other types of events but still the better indicator.

well what u look at urself doesnt really matter when u get put into a split with ppl who could be way worse than you, while the real fast ppl are in the second server just cuz they havent raced 100s of races

regardless atm it doesnt matter, theres barely ever more than 2 or 3 servers, and i have done maybe 20 races and i am sitting at 600 points being 95% on server 1 anyways
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#13
What I've noticed is after enough races (30? 50? 100?) your rating seems to be factored based on your points for that race relative to your rating, by a factor of 10. So if you have a rating of 800, you need to have at least 80 points in the race to gain rating. Or if your rating is 500, you need at least 50 points to gain rating.

It's not perfectly accurate every time, so other things factor into it, but that seems to be the major calculation.

But new drivers I think are factored more on incident points, so it's more important for new drivers to keep it clean than to finish well.

(08-24-2019, 05:57 PM)Russell Sobie Wrote:  Knowing exactly what the math is and adjusting your behavior to optimize point gain would only be gaining points at a higher rate because you are doing what the algorithm wants from you (i.e. the points you "deserve"). Not knowing what the math is means you are GUESSING at what your behavior should be to gain points. Are you arguing that those that are guessing correctly "deserve" more points than those that are simply guessing incorrectly?

Obviously "coming in first without hitting anyone and doing that as often as possible" is probably a  pretty good guess... The only thing I could see that might fly in the face of that is if you actually DON'T want to race as often as you can. If that behavior actually netted you more points overall, that'd be kind of dumb in my mind. So if that were the case, I can see why he'd be keeping it all a secret.
Knowing the evaluation system and adjusting for it is called 'gaming the system'. It doesn't produce better drivers or races, it just changes their focus away from what it should be; the racing.

Auto manufacturers do this with safety and emissions regs all the time, and it necessarily results in cars that are LESS safe and LESS efficient. It's the inevitable consequence because they make cars to suit the tests, and the tests can never perfectly reproduce real-world outcomes.

If you want worse racing, then by all means reverse engineer the ratings system and share with everybody. But make no mistake, it will make things worse.
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#14
Even IMSA/FIA have driver ratings with Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum (call it 6-7-8-900). Here it matters for splits, not such a big deal on US servers most of the time, but will often make a difference on EU servers where you have more splits, like youtubers weekly single race championships or the daily evening 1h race since you need the rating to able to compete in split 1 for championship points. Everybody has been through this anyway at the beginning, and it's not that bad to spend a few weeks in lower splits even if you have level for more. I remember having really tough races in split 2 in my first GT3 champ. Get the good points (still 80 for a win), with the least incidents and you are out of there in no time.
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#15
(08-31-2019, 03:18 AM)Martin Smith Wrote:  Knowing the evaluation system and adjusting for it is called 'gaming the system'. It doesn't produce better drivers or races, it just changes their focus away from what it should be; the racing.

Auto manufacturers do this with safety and emissions regs all the time, and it necessarily results in cars that are LESS safe and LESS efficient. It's the inevitable consequence because they make cars to suit the tests, and the tests can never perfectly reproduce real-world outcomes.

When what you are doing is playing a game, "gaming the system" is actually what you want your players to be doing. No one prevents soccer players from knowing that putting the ball in the back of the opponent's net is the way you make your score go up... so why should this be any different? You don't have to reverse engineer much to figure out that doing good in races makes points go up. People are just curious as to how much and why how much. The fact that it is secret just makes it seem like it has obvious ways to exploit it using poor behavior... which is what most people here are intimating.

I guess I'm arguing that creating a good algorithm for a video game points scoring system that isn't exploitable is entirely possible to do without keeping the exact algorithm being secret. But again, since all these points do is give you a better pit slot and an infinitesimal amount of Internet bragging rights, I don't think knowing exactly how it works or not is all that important, especially since we already have a pretty good idea.

Quote:If you want worse racing, then by all means reverse engineer the ratings system and share with everybody. But make no mistake, it will make things worse.

I think it's already been done as accurately as it can be without Henrique coming in here and laying out the math... and I don't see anyone scrambling to behave "badly" to the detriment of other drivers in order to maximize their point gains. I shudder to think what would happen if everyone tried to win races without hitting anyone in the process! Things would be so much worse! Big Grin
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#16
(08-29-2019, 08:07 AM)Chris Herrmann Wrote:  I have to say I was surprised at times lately why I still gain points cos I had a few not so great finished but they hardly caused anty damage. Only getting crashed out and finishing 15th a couple of times saw my ranking suffer noticeably.

I have never lost any ranking yet. Including races which I finished last or almost last (except quitters). Once something happened IRL right after race start and I had to deal with it right away.  I parked the car in a safe place off-track and went to deal with real life. When I came back, the races was still on, the car was where I left it, so I hopped in and did 2 or 3 remaining laps. Still got some ranking increase.

It may be like that for me because I have not done many races in SRS and have lowish rating (48 races, 568), but it's almost funny.


(08-29-2019, 08:07 AM)Chris Herrmann Wrote:  The system is far more forgiving that PC2 system. there you get crashed out once and you need several  days just to get back to where you were. It seems to be purely who you beat and who beats you. And when you finish 15th you lose so many points you need to win 15 races to get back.

Hm... again my experience is a bit different. After bad performance (coming close to last or last) usually it takes me 2 or 3 decent races (not stellar, not even podiums necessarily) to get back where I was with my rating.  Also the safety rating is pretty forgiving, I drive in open online races so there is contact almost in every race, sometimes many contacts, and I have no problem maintaining A and progressing towards S.
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#17
i am losing rating when for example on 8th place and once got hitted in race , my score go down a little , be in top 5 without contact make about +0,1 in rating, so go up in overal standigs is very difficult now
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#18
[quote pid='30628' dateline='1567265793']
Hm... again my experience is a bit different. After bad performance (coming close to last or last) usually it takes me 2 or 3 decent races (not stellar, not even podiums necessarily) to get back where I was with my rating.  Also the safety rating is pretty forgiving, I drive in open online races so there is contact almost in every race, sometimes many contacts, and I have no problem maintaining A and progressing towards S.
[/quote]

I would argue that you're not ranking high enough so you can score in most races.

I haven't played PC2 for a while so I don't know where good racers rank now. When I stopped I was close to 1800 and "S" rating.

By getting crashed out in a race I would lose 40pts or so easily. But to regain 40 pts I would need to win many races against 1800 ranked drivers. This is really difficult because first of all at the time there weren't many around in the first place, so you may win 10 races and not get a single point because you're the highest ranking driver on the grid. Or when you have a high ranking grid, to beat them conistsently is a whole other issue. And even if I managed to win a couple, next race you get crashed again and start over. I felt that once you reach 1700pts it's always 1 step forward and 2 steps back. And not because of skill necessarily, just because of idiots going around th track the wrong way round Smile

Basically I think the balance is missing: It's a monumental task beating an 1800 ranked driver 3 times and it may gain you 6 points. But it happens frequently that some idiot just crashes people, and you lose 40 pts. Try regianing those 3 by 3 without getting crashed in the meantime :Smile  found that very frustrating.

In SRS I do lose points when I perform badly, I've definitely gone backwards. But I don't go backwards as dramatically - you can compensate one horrible rcae with one good one.

Cheers

Chris
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#19
(09-02-2019, 12:48 PM)Chris Herrmann Wrote:  I would argue that you're not ranking high enough so you can score in most races.

[...] When I stopped I was close to 1800 and "S" rating.

By getting crashed out in a race I would lose 40pts or so easily. But to regain 40 pts I would need to win many races against 1800 ranked drivers. This is really difficult because first of all at the time there weren't many around in the first place, so you may win 10 races and not get a single point because you're the highest ranking driver on the grid. Or when you have a high ranking grid, to beat them conistsently is a whole other issue. And even if I managed to win a couple, next race you get crashed again and start over. I felt that once you reach 1700pts it's always 1 step forward and 2 steps back. And not because of skill necessarily, just because of idiots going around th track the wrong way round Smile

Basically I think the balance is missing: It's a monumental task beating an 1800 ranked driver 3 times and it may gain you 6 points. But it happens frequently that some idiot just crashes people, and you lose 40 pts. Try regianing those 3 by 3 without getting crashed in the meantime :Smile  found that very frustrating.

I think you nailed it. My ranking is far lower. And skills necessary for open PC2 races involve avoiding backmarkers who spend time hunting and crashing passing fast drivers. A different environment.
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