[James Blint]

Knowing some of the guys who are 4s faster, im fairly certain they catch all the apexes and ideal exit lines on their pb or pole laps, you don't have that to begin with. So practice it, my guess from the video is you don't look far enough in the corners, since you track out a lot artificially, which means you could have been on power a lot earlier. Driving on track is mostly a matter of eye/head movements, the car will just go where your eyes are pointing at basically. You can probably trim 2-3s easily, then it gets more complicated, fine details and techniques.

[Pete Parisetti]

Knowing some of the guys who are 4s faster, im fairly certain they catch all the apexes and ideal exit lines on their pb or pole laps, you don't have that to begin with. So practice it, my guess from the video is you don't look far enough in the corners, since you track out a lot artificially, which means you could have been on power a lot earlier. Driving on track is mostly a matter of eye/head movements, the car will just go where your eyes are pointing at basically. You can probably trim 2-3s easily, then it gets more complicated, fine details and techniques.

Thank you James but we seem to see very different things in the video... I just looked at it again, and here is what I see. Turn 1, I am on the throttle a couple of metres before the apex, and I hit the apex precisely. Turn 2 I am less than a foot off the apex, and the throttle is on. Turn 3 exactly like turn 1. Turn 4 is missing in the video. Turn 5, right on the apex and throttle on immediately after that. Turn 6 I am a couple of feet wide of the apex. I normally have the inside wheels over the curb, and I was a bit wide in this lap. Still, delta difference is negligible. Etcetera. I don't really see how I could be on the throttle "a lot earlier", I really can't. Also, after over 600 hours in the sim and hundreds of laps at Zandvoort, the notion that I could "trim 2-3 s easily" is incomprehensible to me. That is the reason why I posted the video. I was hoping to show that on most corners my line is essentially the same the fast guys take (I checked and re-checked the race replays), that I could not realistically accelerate any earlier. I understand and accept that my technique is far from perfect and that I certainly lose time here and there. Also, the lap in the video is in race conditions, where I am extra-careful to finish and have no incidents. But still, 2-3 seconds? No, sorry, I still really don't get it. I don't want to be stubborn, and I am happy to accept that I simply don't have the skills - I just would like to understand. And I very much appreciate your and everybody's time in engaging in this discussion.

[Michal Janak]

shame there is not utility like for GPL for example where you can compare 2 laps from replays and see the lines exactly and the brake and throtle too, there you can visualy see where you losing time

i am too "much" slower than i want, but i am secure and consisten as i canand it is very important here in races, because it is for nothing when you can "hotlap" but crashing in every 2nd lap,

[James Blint]

That's normal you don't see everything, otherwise you would fix it. Turn 1 isn't too bad, slight hesitation on the throttle, that's maybe 0.1/0.2 here. Turn 3 you are clearly not catching the apex and worse you are trying to catch a very late one, which is too late and that makes you loose even more time (if you don't get the apex first hand don't try to catch it too late "just to catch it", turn quickly your focus on the exit instead),  but that's a a couple tenths there easily, cause you carry that deficit all the way in the straight. Turn 7 and 8, you are far from them, and you track out yourself, so not enough speed (the car should go to the exit curb naturally because of the speed, not you turning so it goes there).

We could go on and on but the bottom line is that the guys who are a couple of seconds faster, they really put some perfect or nearly perfect laps. As an example, i was looking at it yesterday for some reasons, a lap of the mx5 by some pro in iRacing on Laguna Seca, just to show you the level of perfectionism you need to put in a lap to make those kind of best times you see around and clearly on SRS you have some amazing drivers who can repeat that kind of laser sharp driving lap after lap or at least for one flying lap, it's really one minute and a half almost in apnea sometimes.


(guess what i has been improved almost a second since then)

You shouldn't worry too much, you ll get there eventually and in a year or two you ll look at your early driving differently. I ve watched back for example my quali lap i did a year ago on Silverstone with the same car, same setup, im now exactly 1s faster, and i didn't change much my driving, it was just more agresssive/smooth and more refined lines, you would have hard time spoting the difference in video but while driving you feel it. 

Lastly to be honest simracing at some point is not pretty at all, yes there are the naturally fast guys who get on the track and figure it out quickly, some have track or racing experience which helps of course, and then there are those who are also very good and put insane amount of practice, trying every combinations to shave off a tenth there and there with setups or even exploit the physic engine, have telemetry, use some ridiculous FOV, no FFB, no brake inertia, etc... at some point it isn't driving anymore, it's guitar hero. Besides it's a lot more fun to be in the middle in the pack.

[Pete Parisetti]

[quote pid='25235' dateline='1551712311']
AHA! This is really becoming interesting. I promise I won't go on and on and waste everybody's time. First, James, I hear you loud and clear about the fact that with time things mysteriously improve - I've seen it happening already in the 8 months I've been at this.

BUT, to put this to sleep, please look at this other short video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8GhSBaELOA

Turn 1 at slow speed shows that the partial lift of the gas happens during turn-in. That means that I turned in too slow, but I seriously doubt there are 1 or 2 tenths there. Then, I floor the pedal some 4 metres before the apex, and it clearly stays down all the way. No time to be gained there, in my book.

Then, you say that I try to catch a very late apex at turn 3. That is "the" apex everybody catches, as clearly shown by the consensus line of rubber on the track. And, as far as I can tell from the slow motion, I catch it pretty well. Some guys take a very tight line around the inside of the corner, others stay very wide on entry, but everybody ends up there and accelerates out - just as I do...

You will hate the moment you answered me the first time! 

[/quote]

[James Blint]

That's not the line. don't take my word for it, this is one of the top player in the leaderboard of the mx5. Watch how close he is to them, how he attacks the curbs, even playing with them sometimes to rotate,...



It's clear that if you believe your turn 3 is how you take an apex, these threads won't go anywhere. You should really start there, even if you do it at a slower pace at the beginning, you have to get this right before anything else. 
Im not sure exactly what you want to hear each time you ask, but so far it didn't improve your laps, so yeah 4s, there are significant things you ain't doing right, some i think are obvious as i described. Take it or leave it.

[Pete Parisetti]

Interesting, James. In your video I see a very fast guy who takes turn 3 essentially all in the middle of the track. Completely different from the two approaches I see when I replay the top guys in my races. And, it seems to me that the closer he gets to the apex is exactly where I think my apex is, toward the end of the curb. Probably then, it is just a matter of wrong perception on my part. Always grateful for your and everybody's suggestion, I close this tread and won't annoy people any more. See you on track (in the distance... lol).

[Jason Jones]

Pete have you ever looked at the data?  It can provide a different way of looking at things that might "click" with you. 
Here's the data from my best lap with this combo which is a 1.56.0
Have a look at the data from your pb and then you can compare and contrast without any sort of bias.

[James Blint]

Interesting, James. In your video I see a very fast guy who takes turn 3 essentially all in the middle of the track. Completely different from the two approaches I see when I replay the top guys in my races. And, it seems to me that the closer he gets to the apex is exactly  where I think my apex is, toward the end of the curb.  Probably then, it is just a matter of wrong perception on my part. Always grateful for your and everybody's suggestion, I close this tread and won't annoy people any more. See you on track (in the distance... lol).

Anyway even if you do 1:59, you are more or less in the average on RSR

http://www.radiators-champ.com/RSRLiveTi...ds=all&p=1

(bottom graph for overview)

Some are even in the 1:54 but they run at lower temperatures than SRS which tends to make you faster (depends how the tyres react to that) and they have open setup, so the people who can put 1:55 on Zandvoort with fixed setup are very fast. You can certainly get in the good end of the average first, around 1:58, with just a few efforts 

[Gavin Ranson]

It really is just practise pete, I have 3ooo hours on AC and probably the same on gt5, I've been playing on a wheel for 9 years. You shouldn't worry so much about your pace, to be honest you're pretty good considering you've only been on a wheel for a short amount of time. Also racing at your speed putting you mid pack will help your race craft which is something you can only learn racing online, no point being super fast but can't race wheel to wheel without collisions. One piece of advice I'd give is to download this app if you haven't already https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads...ick.11007/