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Toyota AE86 Tuned series
#11
Got in the same trap as Thomas... registered and when entering the server wondered why the race is 60 mins. Probably overread that. Unfortunately the Seat event at Nordschleife was too close for competing in both, so I left after about half the race. Maybe an hour more time between these series which are only once a week would be good for the future.
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#12
(06-26-2018, 10:27 PM)Will Dawson Wrote:  Jaroslav,

I agree with you on the championship points, there are times when I've had to quit out of a race after a few laps only to find that I've earned plenty of points and it always feels kinda cheap.

The camera switching when pitting can be disabled either through an INI file (can't remember which one) or via the options menu in Content Manager.

You can see the qualy and race length in the box where the 'register' button is, just press the little switch at the top right of each race box to see more info. Weather is set to random as far as I'm aware. Air temp is 22c and track temp is 27c-28c.

Thanks found it, it was on the same page as replay adjustments where I had to raise the size limit so I can save whole 1h races next time. I could not find it in INI files but it must be there somewhere, I will check with CM.

It's here: system-config/pistop.ini-settings-stay_in_car=1

SRS does seem to use it's custom temperature 21-22/27-28C. So far weather seemed to be light or mid clouds on both AE86 races.


You can not see qualification length on the SRS selection only race length :/ OK I see, it's a BUG, in Content Manager qualification length is empty but viewed on web I see 10min Qualification for DTM race. Q 10min for AE86 Vallelunga, 20min race.
Still it would be nice to have the whole schedule on web for any series so that people can plan their schedule and decide better on participation. As such it could have been seen long ago that there is a schedule collision with other SRS series for some of the races.

SRS does not run any official or unofficial calendar for all of it's series plus at best other known series from elsewhere?
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#13
I think the solution to the surprise 1 hour races with 20 minute Qualifying is to just not have them at all unless the series is 1 hour races every week. I typically won't bother joining 1 hour races for a number of reasons, and a couple of times I've accidentally registered for one not reading the fine print, and ducked out after 20-30 minutes of racing until it inevitably turns into hotlapping all alone. I'd rather have 6 weeks of 20 minute races in the series that I want to participate in, instead of 5 weeks of one way and then 1 week being a pretty big departure from the norm (especially if tires and/or fuel on the particular car require a pit strategy of which I have no interest in coming up with).

I do agree that if you don't actually finish the vast majority of a race you shouldn't get any points. How do other leagues calculate that? Do you just have to cross the finish line after Final Lap is shown? Do they actually look at your gap from 1st and it has to be within some threshold? I don't care what the method is... but I think you should at the very least finish HALF the lap the leader did to get anything. If not 90%.
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#14
(06-27-2018, 12:01 AM)Russell Sobie Wrote:  I think the solution to the surprise 1 hour races with 20 minute Qualifying is to just not have them at all unless the series is 1 hour races every week. I typically won't bother joining 1 hour races for a number of reasons, and a couple of times I've accidentally registered for one not reading the fine print, and ducked out after 20-30 minutes of racing until it inevitably turns into hotlapping all alone. I'd rather have 6 weeks of 20 minute races in the series that I want to participate in, instead of 5 weeks of one way and then 1 week being a pretty big departure from the norm (especially if tires and/or fuel on the particular car require a pit strategy of which I have no interest in coming up with).

I do agree that if you don't actually finish the vast majority of a race you shouldn't get any points. How do other leagues calculate that? Do you just have to cross the finish line after Final Lap is shown? Do they actually look at your gap from 1st and it has to be within some threshold? I don't care what the method is... but I think you should at the very least finish HALF the lap the leader did to get anything. If not 90%.

I'm not sure how pro leagues do that, but you could probably look it up on rF2 WEC or what decent leagues are there nowadays. I have old PDF regulation files somewhere but probably lost on dead harddrive. It used to be something around 75-90% of race completion required to get any points. So for a 33 lap race and 90% limit you would have to do 30-33 laps to get points, 29 and below no points. Or it was based on time on track, that's another option. Trying to look it up, here is one of the teams I remember and they sometimes show up racing in AC:

Quote:O. Official Classification and Championships
1.
All drivers which start a Genuine Racing GT1 Challenge race will be classified in the
results and given points, provided that they finished at least 75% of the race distance.
Completing less than 75% of the race distance will result in you getting DNF points
only
and not being classified among the other cars that did complete the minimum
distance. The only case in which a driver does not score any points is if he gets
disqualified, then that driver is placed behind all others in the results and will receive
no points.

...

3.
Championship points are awarded on the following scale:
1st - 250 points
2nd - 225 points
3rd - 210 points
...
60th -  18 points
61st -  16 points
62nd -  14 points
DNF under 75% - 5 points
Pole Position - 5 points (both servers)

Source: http://www.ready2rollteam.com/leagues/rules.php
http://ready2rollteam.com/leagues/docume...les_V3.pdf

Quote:VII.
Classification and Points
1.
All entrants which start a session shall be listed in the session results.
1.
Attending a session but not joining the track for even a partial out lap shall be considered
a “Did Not Start”
2.
Entrants participating in a race session shall be classified as follows:  By laps completed
then time; or time, as appropriate.  All entrants who start and are not disqualified will be
ordered without considering current race status.  Any entrant who is disqualified will be
placed behind all other starters.   Any entrant who does not start will be listed as such
behind all other entrants who started the session.
3.
Entrants who enter the circuit during any other session type will be listed in the result; no
other entrant will be listed in the session result.
2.
All series shall follow a common points issuing scheme.  Specific point allocations may vary
by series.
1.
Any driver or team which starts a race shall be eligible for points, provided both of the
following conditions are met:
a.
The driver or team completed 75% or more of the race leader's laps (or class leader,
where applicable), and

b.
The driver or team is not disqualified from the race
2.
The 75% calculation shall be done with actual laps completed, disregarding any lap
deductions.
3.
A driver or team is eligible for bonus points and participation points as defined on a per
series basis regardless of distance completed, provided that the driver or team was not
disqualified.

I guess it used to be 75%. This is from NDR, they used to run PRO and sometimes AMAteur leagues. The difference between PRO and AMA was kind of defined by what you participated prior and I guess you results as well, probably could be looked up in the rules. And sometimes rules do include that if your/teams-average performance is outside 103.5-105% pace you may not be able to join the race and often there was a practice/prequalification to sort people/teams out, so I guess you could try PRO series but it doesn't make much sense without at least some prior experience.

Source: http://newdimensionracing.com/sportingcode

You can find some teams listed in these stats: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...dget=false

Quote:VIII.Official Classification
1.All drivers and cars which start an LFSCART race will be classified in the results and given points, provided that they complete 75% or more of the race distance and are not disqualified

Source: http://newdimensionracing.com/lfscart/rules

http://mastersofendurance.eu/ (seems to have moved to iRacing as they finally added driver swapping, something Kunos can't be bothered to do for years and kills leagues and any endurance racing that way) And so on if you look at LFS forum. On AC forum... I never saw anything close to this kind of level when it comes to leagues. The closest so far was https://www.reddit.com/r/acrl/ but even from that I know people moved away (I think to WEC rF2 for the most part). But there do seem to be decent rules there too https://www.reddit.com/r/acrl/wiki/rules and plenty guides for fair racing and setups. Though I can't see a distance limit or any points for that matter, it must be there somewhere though how points are awarded.

75% distance used to be a norm.

That would mean for a 33 laps race: 25+ laps have to be completed to get points otherwise you get DNF points or none etc. You don't need to finish the race as in you could do 25 laps, flip it over on a roof = forced to retire but you should still get full points and not DNF points only, though it may depend on other fine print, but I think it used to be that way.

75% is not that difficult to complete.

---

A full schedule with all times and durations should be published for any series when that series is announced so that people can see what they are getting into, I too thought it's 20min races with 10min qualification for all races as well as the DTM races are that way, I did see the next Okayama race is 1 hour but I still can't find and have no idea what the next races are beside the immediately listed upcoming race. This makes it impossible for people to make their racing schedule and results in unforeseen series collisions.

I do think 20min is a bit short for most cars, for DTMs it's OK they were ran that way and tyres last only that much. For AE86 Tuned 1h is nice as for first 15-30 min you are usually locked into a field of cars and unable to go anywhere, stuck behind cars, hell even longer if the driver performances are similar. I've had 6 hour race before and was fighting for finish line with defending an overtake. So race length does not really matter much when it comes to fun and competition, having a field of good drivers is what is important and you can fight for hours if many are able to run similar fast pace.
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#15
You can get a list of all the 1 hour exceptions on the News item when a season is announced, but I don't think it is all that adequate. I'd much rather see it in a table/calendar format... or even just a full list. You could probably leave out the multiple-race-per-day series in such a list for clarity.

http://www.simracingsystem.com/showthread.php?tid=3547

I agree that race length doesn't matter much... when you have a lot of drivers with very similar race paces. But unfortunately that really isn't the case in the majority of the races on SRS, so I think 20 minutes is plenty to figure out who the most consistently fast is.

And 20 minutes won't murder your knees. Smile
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#16
Both 20mins and 1hr race lengths have their own problems. 1hr races only have 1 or 2 strategies and can turn into a solo driving experience which is rather boring ( Even worse if it's a track you don't like). 20mins are high traffic, glorified qualifying sessions and if you get caught in a wreckfest then you don't have enough time to fight back.

These are issues that sim racing has in general and is something you just have to learn to live with I guess Smile
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#17
Sure... but we don't have to learn to live with having a 20 minute racing series have an arbitrary 1hr race 1/6th of the time, right? The Ginetta series is 20 minutes every week and it's wonderful. I think if I was able to participate in more than just a couple of series this season I'd probably be whining about this even more. Is the reason for a 1hr race based on the tracks for that week themselves? Or is it to "separate the men from the boys" kind of nonsense?
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#18
Oh for sure some of the 1 hour races jumbled in the predominantly 20mins races make no sense to me either unless it's on the Nordshleife.
I think the point of it is to test different abilities of drivers in a series but the implementation of it is a bit odd because there is no mandatory pit stop and/or alterations to fuel usage so it just becomes an hour long sprint, which isn't great.
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#19
Thanks, that's quite hidden even for me to find under "- New AC Series coming June 18 !!".

Quote:Youtuber series
Some youtuber series will feature  one or more rounds with 20 min qualy + 1 hour race.

Euro youtubers
   Tuesday - Random Callsign - Toyota AE86 (1 hour race 2018-06-26 Okayama GP)

Great but what lengths are the other races and qualifications? Again doesn't say either.

2018-06-19 Q10min R20min Nurburgring GP
2018-06-26 Q20min R60min Okayama GP
2018-07-03 Q10min R20min Vallelunga Classic
2018-07-10 Q10min R20min Magione
2018-07-17 Q10min R20min Imola
2018-07-24 Q10min R20min Laguna Seca

Session schedule*: 19:00 UTC
Starting Mode: (Fast what the heck does that even mean, fast) Standing // Fuel Usage: 100%
Tire Usage: 100% // Mech Failures: 1? 1 = enabled but I think it's only 60%
Race Start Time: 13:00:00 with light clouds weather - I have a hard time replicating it offline though, online it was both times so far very dark yet offline it's not even at early/late times and more cloudy weather, it's odd. // Race Time Scale: 1 (100%)
Mandatory pitstop: no // nº Races: 1

Driving aids: TC: 1 = factory // AB: 1 = factory // SC: 0 = disabled

Added some info to it. May not be correct.

Quote:20mins are high traffic, glorified qualifying sessions and if you get caught in a wreckfest then you don't have enough time to fight back.
Yes. The problem also is why bother driving a 10+20min race when you can go online on KMR enabled servers that have more strict and automatic rules with admin often online that runs 10+15-20min races and you can do 6 of those in a row no problem.
With a single 10+20min... is it even worth bothering setting up your wheel, pedals and car setup? With DTMs 20mins is fine as I said the tyres are made that way in AC and don't last much longer though as I see on DTM '92 they used to run two around 40min races, that's hard tyres in AC for sure but those are quite bad to heat up.

With AE86 Tuned a 60min race is a mandatory pitstop unless you want to crawl around at low rpms to save fuel. On Okayama GP it could do 25 laps on full tank but race was 33 laps. Pitstops don't need to be made mandatory by rules but they become a necessity based on fuel/tyre usage for the race.

15+30 or 15+40-45min would have been nice but it sure depends on how the competition is. There are a whole another elements when it comes to longer races where you drive a bit more alone, concentration, consistency, average pace, tyre usage, fuel usage, overtake planning (who to or not to pass and let you pass, when and where), ...
You have to watch your back and adjust pace, I sure did on Okayama to keep a safe distance for pitstop. Pitstop can shuffle positions around a lot depending on how much you mess up and I sure did mess up since in AC it's a rarity to do pitstops.
It's not an 1 hour long sprint really, you gotta watch what's happening behind you, who's catching up or not but also in front of you as you do not want to lose any time being stuck behind blue flagged cars. Watching tyres to not use them up too soon, watching fuel usage, deciding what lap to pit and where the pitstop may put you in the field will you be stuck in a middle of a pack of blue flagged cars or not? etc. On top of that in leagues you would have track wide yellow flags, safety cars for bigger collisions where the whole field may often get compacted behind the safety car and "close racing starts" again. May think safety cars are no big deal... oh they can be, I once had 15 freakin' safety cars in a single last 1h stint of a race because others kept flipping over in high speed chicane. That's watching tyres, trying to keep them heated up at all, starting attacking and defending 15 times all the while trying to keep sane as you race 2 laps and here goes another safety car LOL.

Some long races may be predictable and boring true but the opposite can also happen.
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#20
(06-28-2018, 02:34 PM)Jaroslav Cerný Wrote:  Thanks, that's quite hidden even for me to find under "- New AC Series coming June 18 !!".

Quote:Great but what lengths are the other races and qualifications? Again doesn't say either.
If it isn't 1 hour, it's 20 minutes. This falls under "arcane knowledge", so this could be listed explicitly as well.

Quote:Tire Usage: 100% // Mech Failures: 1? 1 = enabled but I think it's only 60%

I think Mechanical Failures is different than damage percentage, isn't it? Pretty sure everything is 60% except for Simpit series.

Quote:
Quote:20mins are high traffic, glorified qualifying sessions and if you get caught in a wreckfest then you don't have enough time to fight back.

Yes. The problem also is why bother driving a 10+20min race when you can go online on KMR enabled servers that have more strict and automatic rules with admin often online that runs 10+15-20min races and you can do 6 of those in a row no problem.

With a single 10+20min... is it even worth bothering setting up your wheel, pedals and car setup?

Are these servers online all the time? Do they have races early mornings or primetime for NA time zones? Do they have 20+ drivers every race? Can the majority of the drivers in these races actually do 10+ clean laps in a row? Can people automatically download and see your custom livery?

For SRS races the answer to all of these is yes. My guess is that most of those are a no for these servers of which you speak.

As far as bothering to doing wheel/pedals and car setup... it takes me about 30 seconds to set up my wheel/pedals... if it isn't already setup. And as far a car setups, yeah I pretty much don't like bothering. If it's a fixed series, no sweat. If it's open, I typically grab something from thesetupmarket and make some tweaks. If nothing is available, I spend 30-60 minutes on it and then just put together some consistent laps before racing.

In other words: SRS 20 minute races do a good job catering to drivers like myself that take racing mostly seriously, but also don't want to spend more than maybe 1 hour TOTAL on a particular race, per day.
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