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Can we talk about the carelessness in the Lotus Evora GX
#11
Are not there penalties in Chang ?
You can take advantage in every cornes practically...
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#12
(04-22-2019, 08:14 PM)Dennis Ipenburg Wrote:  dude... you DO understand that sometimes ppl make mistakes right? Everyone screams and shouts for clean racing, but I can barely remember the last clean race I've seen in real life. If people dare to make mistakes when their health is on the line, obviously ppl will also make mistakes in a game. Yet here it seems people don't know how fast to report when an incident occurs. One might even say they report incidents faster than that they race.

Just get over yourselves. If you see any proof of disrespectful behaviour, then reporting is the right thing to do. But other than that, start accepting that incidents belong in racing

I'm not sure who you are responding to here as you didn't quote anyone. But that said, I think you are confusing "clean" with "incident free" here, I think. Obviously people make mistakes. Real life races are by and large "clean" (as in, there aren't jackasses divebombing, showing up to a race having never driven the track before and/or the car being driven, punting and not allowing the punted to get back on the road before passing him up, etc.) even though incidents do occur from time to time. "Unclean" stuff happens in online gaming specifically because of what you mention: our health is not in danger.

And all of those things should be reported. If I do any of that stuff I expect to get reported. But I don't*, and unshockingly, I don't get reported.

*And when I do cause an incident due to a mistake, I give the spot back in the race and typically PM the person or persons I tagged with an apology afterwards.
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#13
I see in pretty much every race drivers dive exceptionally deep in a desperate move to overtake the driver in front of them. Something that here would be translated as divebombing.

-Showing up in a race with 0 experience - isn't this why SRS has different classes?! How often does it really happen? And obviously that NEVER happens in real races, so why on earth do you think I'd confuse incident free with clean? Obviously I do not.
-Divebombing. Another one of those popular terms, that only very few understand. When one driver overtakes another driver by braking exceptionally late, and there's a little contact when he makes the move stick, the average player here screams and shouts that he divebombed him, illegal blabla.

People also seem to be under the impression that any form of contact is forbidden in racing. It actually isn't. Knocking/pushing someone off track is. Contact however isn't.

Also bear in mind, that many people here drive with a huge difference in quality of hardware. Someone who drives around with loadcell brakes can brake a lot more accurate - and therefore often later -than someone who plays with standardish paddles. The difference in quality is huge, compared to 'real racing'. That makes it much more difficult to estimate the braking point of the car you're chasing. especially in hard braking zones. These are all things to keep in mind, before you start calling other drivers jackasses, only because you don't fully understand what actually happened or why.

Also, the driver who's being knocked off track by someone who made a move by exceptional deep braking, should always ask themselves what they did to contribute to the incident.

Check this video from 0:38 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSS-guKXQJY
You see Ricciardo in a Red Bull chasing Vettel in his Ferrari. You see Ricciardo break very (too) deep. Vettel moves in and there's contact. Who's to blame?
It may be a surprise to you that Vettel was penalized after the race, for moving under braking. However, here most people would call Ricciardo's move a divebomb
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#14
(04-23-2019, 01:49 PM)Russell Sobie Wrote:   "Unclean" stuff happens in online gaming specifically because of what you mention: our health is not in danger.
Nor our money. It costs zero time and money to rebuild a car made of pixels. (I have always wondered what would happen if people were banned from racing for the time needed to rebuild the car). Nor will you be dropped from a team/by your sponsors if you crashed to many times and too stupidly.
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#15
It definitely hurts when you try to do well or just race clean and stupid things happen. The other day I took the pole with .6 over second, 1 sec over third (slow field, not me being fast Big Grin ) only to get divebombed into t1 by the guy in 3rd who was going to get disappear in my mirror after 3 turns. WTF are you trying to do, knowing that you're 1 sec off the pace (he was even slower in race pace)?


Then again, a guy who is 1 sec/lap slower than me is probably simply not very good, seeing that I'm "ok" at best! Maybe he just misjudged. I think there is a huge difference in skill. From pole to last often 3 secs/lap. And when you don't get a clean lap in quali (so much slow traffic!), you get stuck in midfield with people who barely control the cars or know the track, you have no idea when they will brake and you need to expect craziness in every turn. That's just how it is with such big difference in competence.


My tip: train hard and qualify near the front. I run 10 times more practise laps than actual online race laps (practise servers with mock races would be cool! Smile)  If you get onto the first 2 rows good things will happen:


1) the guys around you are either better than you or at your level
2) You start to get to know the guys around you and you then know who is really fast, who is aggressive, who is clean
3) with a bit of luck you get separated from the craziness after 2 or 3 turns


Only when you race near the front and know who you race with will you get the experience you are looking for. And that's OK, think about it, most people are jerks (and you are to them), why would it be different on a race track - in anonimity Smile

I have raced sims since the 80s. Yup, I'm that old! And they probably weren't even sims then, just games :Smile Only in Live for Speed on monitored servers with racing buddies I raced with every day have I had the experience you are looking for. Even iRacing despite the safety rating is a pretty crash prone experience, maybe the higher classes are better, I lost interest after continuously getting my SR destroyed by people ramming me off the track.

I like the safety rating in Project Cars 2 and if there were more servers with limited acees to safe drivers it could be very good. Unfortunately not enough people race online, so servers are always open to all.

I have great hopes for Assetto corsa Comptizione, again because of safety rating. And because of native Helicorsa, a thing of beauty.

But I have to say: SRS has for me, since LFS, been the best online experience. Despite its flaws. I would say I get 3 good races out of 5 ... and yeah, sometimes I also mess up, and all I can do is apologise when I do.

Cheers
Chris
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#16
so so many drivers dont use brain, or totaly ignoring other drivers on track in all series, too hard , so it look some of us get some mone for every position gained no meter of how many racer push out by the way
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#17
(04-23-2019, 05:58 PM)Chris Herrmann Wrote:  I like the safety rating in Project Cars 2 and if there were more servers with limited acees to safe drivers it could be very good. Unfortunately not enough people race online, so servers are always open to all.
Yes there are very few people racing in public servers in PC2, so only very rarely people set up rating limits, and even if they do, it's usually very low,like F1000, so it only weeds out the worst of the worst.  Or people set up races so that the result do not affect ratings, so then it's open season. 

But what can you do, unless it's a GT3 or GTE race in Spa, Monza, Watkins Glen or Laguna Seca there will be 3-5 people in the lobby at best.  

And even in populated GT3 races with some rating limit and the race result affecting racing, crazy things happen all the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1cLynnYHRM

Ultimately, I think that safety racing in PC2 is generally a good idea, but it helps only a little.
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#18
(04-23-2019, 02:25 PM)Dennis Ipenburg Wrote:  I see in pretty much every race drivers dive exceptionally deep in a desperate move to overtake the driver in front of them. Something that here would be translated as divebombing.

<snip>

-Divebombing. Another one of those popular terms, that only very few understand. When one driver overtakes another driver by braking exceptionally late, and there's a little contact when he makes the move stick, the average player here screams and shouts that he divebombed him, illegal blabla.

<snip>

Check this video from 0:38 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSS-guKXQJY
You see Ricciardo in a Red Bull chasing Vettel in his Ferrari. You see Ricciardo break very (too) deep. Vettel moves in and there's contact. Who's to blame?
It may be a surprise to you that Vettel was penalized after the race, for moving under braking. However, here most people would call Ricciardo's move a divebomb

I'll define divebomb and you tell me if you think I'm right or not:

Divebomb: The act of attempting to go inside on a turn where 1) you are not yet along side the opponent on the outside before they begin turning in, AND 2) you do not brake soon enough to actually make the turn and still keep at least 2 wheels between the lines both on entry and exit.

I don't know how anyone would think that Ricciardo's inside bid would be a divebomb since 1) he was able to stay along side well into the braking zone before turn in and 2) was able to actually make the turn. It certainly looks like the Ferrari comes into his space during the braking zone to try to further squeeze him, causing the contact, so I'm actually NOT surprised if he was penalized.

You weren't able to find a better example of what you might people mistake for divebombing? Possibly because those guys are the elite of open wheel racing? Something you'll likely not find here on SRS?

Which goes to my point: we aren't professional drivers. We should be avoiding contact at pretty much all costs because if contact occurs the combination of our comparative lack of skill to pro drivers, Internet latency, and the wonky way Assetto Corsa deals with collisions will make the tiniest of contacts turn into wild spins and such on occasion.

Quote:-Showing up in a race with 0 experience - isn't this why SRS has different classes?! How often does it really happen? And obviously that NEVER happens in real races, so why on earth do you think I'd confuse incident free with clean? Obviously I do not.

SRS doesn't have different classes. There's a Driver Rating, and in past seasons there might be a few series that require you to have a minimum driver rating, but NONE of them have that currently. "0 experience" and "never driven the track before and/or the car being driven" are a bit different. The former might happen once a month at most... people literally playing multiplayer Assetto Corsa for the first time after finding out about SRS. The latter... people who have quite a bit of experience racing competitively yet have not actually practiced with a car/track combo? That probably happens daily!

I've done it myself with some of the easier to drive cars on a track I'm familiar with. Drop in, try to figure out braking zones and gears for turns during practice and qualifying, probably qualify midpack, then fight your way to the front during the race. Trick is, I don't do anything stupid in this situation. Likely my lap times will improve during the race but I'll go easy trying to overtake people if I'm not confident doing so.

But not everyone sees it that way... I see a lot of folks do this and since they know they are faster than the guy in front of them they try to aggressively shove their way past. And cause incidents.

Quote:People also seem to be under the impression that any form of contact is forbidden in racing. It actually isn't. Knocking/pushing someone off track is. Contact however isn't.

I'd agree with that. However, the rules are pretty specific in that "abusive" contact IS forbidden. That's the stuff that should be reported. This includes actual divebombing, btw. I hope that doesn't trigger you. Big Grin


Quote:Also bear in mind, that many people here drive with a huge difference in quality of hardware. Someone who drives around with loadcell brakes can brake a lot more accurate - and therefore often later -than someone who plays with standardish paddles. The difference in quality is huge, compared to 'real racing'. That makes it much more difficult to estimate the braking point of the car you're chasing. especially in hard braking zones. These are all things to keep in mind, before you start calling other drivers jackasses, only because you don't fully understand what actually happened or why.

Also, the driver who's being knocked off track by someone who made a move by exceptional deep braking, should always ask themselves what they did to contribute to the incident.

Just because your hardware lets you brake later, doesn't mean you get to drive into someone who has already begun turning into a corner, whether they break sooner than you or not. If you want that inside, you have to get there before they turn in. If you are there before they start turning in, its their fault if they turn into your space. But if you aren't there yet, that's a divebomb. And if the only way you make that turn is by bouncing off the outside car... also a divebomb. Big Grin

I've reported that type of thing a number of times here on SRS, and unsurprisingly the driver in question gets warned/suspended/banned for the incident. And in my eyes, anything that gets a successful warning/suspension/ban out of administration is by definition something that should be reported.

If you simply flat out disagree with his judgement on reported incidents, well... that's an issue you'll have to take up with administration. Not those doing the reporting. Smile
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Grab my PDash Skins (an Assetto Corsa HUD app) here: https://tinyurl.com/y95ewubz
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#19
(04-24-2019, 12:02 AM)Russell Sobie Wrote:  Just because your hardware lets you brake later, doesn't mean you get to drive into someone who has already begun turning into a corner, whether they break sooner than you or not. If you want that inside, you have to get there before they turn in. If you are there before they start turning in, its their fault if they turn into your space. But if you aren't there yet, that's a divebomb.

I am curious if, in the video that I posted a few posts above, would you call the 0:28 pass or the 1:03 pass a divebomb?
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#20
(04-24-2019, 12:15 AM)Pawel Kusmierek Wrote:  
(04-24-2019, 12:02 AM)Russell Sobie Wrote:  Just because your hardware lets you brake later, doesn't mean you get to drive into someone who has already begun turning into a corner, whether they break sooner than you or not. If you want that inside, you have to get there before they turn in. If you are there before they start turning in, its their fault if they turn into your space. But if you aren't there yet, that's a divebomb.

I am curious if, in the video that I posted a few posts above, would you call the 0:28 pass or the 1:03 pass a divebomb?

Right at 0:30 is where the red car starts to turn in. Black car is already is along side. Not a divebomb.

I didn't really see any passes at 1:03... do you mean after that at around 1:07? That's just the red car not understanding what a racing line is. Big Grin Luckily black car (you, I assume) was able to make the turn and leave space on the outside.

I'd show you a laundry list of examples of actual divebombs, but I don't have any videos outside of SRS stuff I've recorded, and posting such would easily be considered against the rules. Smile
Tutorial on how to use Autodesk Mudbox and Adobe Photoshop to make custom liveries! https://tinyurl.com/yaetz4qz
Grab my PDash Skins (an Assetto Corsa HUD app) here: https://tinyurl.com/y95ewubz
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