[Martin Smith]

Nothing wrong with the layout if everyone sticks to it mate.

That's true and at the same time completely fails to deal with reality.

[Mark Puc]

Funily enough, disrespectful is a matter of opinion too, and it just so happens most people other than you seem to find the outcome worth the action hence everyone but you talking about the actual issue thats the topic of the thread and not pretending to be the morale compass of SRS

It is indeed an opinion which you, I and everyone else has a right to. Was your action during a race helpful? I think not, my opinion. Were your remarks about other drivers in the race being uncompetitive disrespectful?(I was one of them), I think so, my opinion. As far as the layout goes, punish the people exploiting it, changing the layout and preventing the majority of drivers from enjoying a close clean race on the GP layout is more or less condoning the actions of a few bad drivers. Letting them get away with it is the wrong message to send. This has nothing to do with my morals, it has to do with honesty, respect and sportsmanship while racing.  My opinion.

---

Nothing wrong with the layout if everyone sticks to it mate.

That's true and at the same time completely fails to deal with reality.

Yes mate, I agreed with one of the other posters to ask the maker if they would or could fix it. Reality would dictate disqualification from the results and a possible ban. Blatant cheating under any circumstances should not be abided as it ruins it for everyone.

[John Gordon]

The attitude on here sucks.

Basically what most of you are saying is that just because there is an exploit open to abuse, then we should move away from that track because hey, if there is a cheat then why not cheat.

I'm sorry but thats moronic thinking.

Hows about we just acknowledge that there is an exploit.... anaaaaannnnd perhaps just not abuse it?

If you see people abusing it, report it. Then the minority of the community that just 'Can't help themselves' will be weeded out by the system that SRS has in place to deal with this kinda thing.

I'm sure most decent people in this community can follow a track in its intended layout despite knowing there's a shortcut to take.

John

[Mark Puc]

The attitude on here sucks.

Basically what most of you are saying is that just because there is an exploit open to abuse, then we should move away from that track because hey, if there is a cheat then why not cheat.

I'm sorry but thats moronic thinking.

Hows about we just acknowledge that there is an exploit.... anaaaaannnnd perhaps just not abuse it?

If you see people abusing it, report it. Then the minority of the community that just 'Can't help themselves' will be weeded out by the system that SRS has in place to deal with this kinda thing.

I'm sure most decent people in this community can follow a track in its intended layout despite knowing there's a shortcut to take.

John

I'm with you mate, and I have done just that. cheers, AussieStig

[Martin Smith]

The attitude on here sucks.

Basically what most of you are saying is that just because there is an exploit open to abuse, then we should move away from that track because hey, if there is a cheat then why not cheat.

I'm sorry but thats moronic thinking.

Hows about we just acknowledge that there is an exploit.... anaaaaannnnd perhaps just not abuse it?

If you see people abusing it, report it. Then the minority of the community that just 'Can't help themselves' will be weeded out by the system that SRS has in place to deal with this kinda thing.

I'm sure most decent people in this community can follow a track in its intended layout despite knowing there's a shortcut to take.

John

We've been to other tracks have had exploits too that weren't a problem. Ebisu East, old Fuji, Spa. This is not those tracks. The fact that others are reporting abuse already at Donington is a clue to the difference

[Roman Yakubovich]

Ideal solution and implementable solution are two different ones in this situation. We are not in iRacing where you pay people for doing a lot of different things including reviewing racing quality (reports). I doubt admins here have some reasonable reward for doing this job, probably this is why usual reports are reviewed in a couple of weeks sometimes.

Now imagine what admins need to do in ideal solution. Today is Wednesday, so 4 days 6 races each left. They are gonna need clean up 24 races, ban a lot of people by reviewing a ton of (basically the same) protests and then review races results and recount ratings. Will you do this for free? It's easier to change track layout and review maybe one-two races.

I hope that admins will clarify this situation as soon as they can, because this series is unraceable at the moment.

[Russell Sobie]

Pretty disrespectful post. Cheating to prove a point is still cheating. AussieStig

You guys have both edited your posts, so I can only respond to what I'm seeing now, hours later. 

1) Op did not cheat. He did an experiment. If he were cheating, he would not have given up the penalty time, nor would he have posted his results. Cheating implies intention, and his intention was not to gain an advantage but to see what the game would allow without any detriment to anyone.

2) Calling something "uncompetitive" might sound insulting, but if there were 6 guys in the race and they all had lap times multiple seconds apart, that's like... not very competitive, right? I'm not thinking Joe's intention was to put down folks that are slower than he is, but to further illustrate his point that he was not intending to disadvantage anyone in the race (i.e. he was making sure his experiment would not be seen as an attempt to cheat).

3) Personally I'd be fine with a permaban for anyone obviously intentionally cutting the track in order to gain an advantage* in a race. See points 1 and 2 above in that Joe shouldn't be counted among those doing the cheating.

4) That said, I've multiple times lamented about the lack of clear rules here on SRS and if we strip all of this away, assume someone that has NEVER done any motorsports competitions at all, and allow them to come into an SRS race and do whatever they want within the confines of the game itself, cutting the track in this way would be just fine, unless explicitly mentioned in the rules. So the way around that for SRS is to have a really open ended set of rules and rely pretty much soley on the protest form. So yeah... if we want to keep using tracks that have exploits as bad as this on SRS, SRSAdmin will just have to be drowning in all the protests of people cutting without in-game penalties.

Fine by me, if that's what we have to do. Weed out the cheaters with protest videos, with the option of also culling tracks with gaping holes in track boundaries from racing series.

*As judged by SRSAdministration given video protests. And I'll say it a third time: this shouldn't count any videos of people happening to send in a protest against Joe for his experiment that started this thread.

[Mark Puc]

Pretty disrespectful post. Cheating to prove a point is still cheating. AussieStig

You guys have both edited your posts, so I can only respond to what I'm seeing now, hours later. 

1) Op did not cheat. He did an experiment. If he were cheating, he would not have given up the penalty time, nor would he have posted his results. Cheating implies intention, and his intention was not to gain an advantage but to see what the game would allow without any detriment to anyone.

2) Calling something "uncompetitive" might sound insulting, but if there were 6 guys in the race and they all had lap times multiple seconds apart, that's like... not very competitive, right? I'm not thinking Joe's intention was to put down folks that are slower than he is, but to further illustrate his point that he was not intending to disadvantage anyone in the race (i.e. he was making sure his experiment would not be seen as an attempt to cheat).

3) Personally I'd be fine with a permaban for anyone obviously intentionally cutting the track in order to gain an advantage* in a race. See points 1 and 2 above in that Joe shouldn't be counted among those doing the cheating.


Hey Russell, no worries mate, great post. Have to disagree with you on points 1 and 2 though. Point 1, cutting a track on purpose whilst a race is underway is cheating. If people want to test a theory they can do that in an AI race, Qualy or practice before a race. 2, there were 9 cars entered in the race including myself. If you look at the results of that race, you can see that mine and others sector times were not far off the winner's times, so being made out to be uncompetitive is disrespectful. A protest has been lodged with video (not relating to the OP though). Cheers AussieStig

[Phil Stubbs]

Firstly Mark Puc - I think you've seriously misread the OP's intentions and an apology is in order.

Next, and IMO, all of the following discussion stems from the underlying issue - a seriously flawed track design.

So, stop using it until the author resolves the layout issue, which may or may not be a straightforward task, or if they are no longer interested in making changes, can someone else edit it? It appears someone has tried to contact them (not f*****g "reached out" to them, FFS that phrase boils my p155) through RD so let see what happens...

Once a flaw of this magnitude is known, the other options, self regulation or protests, are either unrealistic or too time intensive for too many people, drivers making videos, admin reviewing, scores changing, championships being affected etc etc etc.

Basically, what Russell said, but with the emphasis on culling tracks before drivers

[Martin Smith]

Also should point out that someone posted a lap time of 1 sec on this track, so there seems to be another issue which may not be resolved by switching to the National circuit.