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Test before joining SRS
#11
From my pov respect-wise it doesn`t really matter if you`re in top split or if you race midpack or top 5. I meet all types of simracers everywhere. Few regulars I recognise and I know they race cleanly, others I know just want to place even if they crash (they don`t place if they crash but still, hard racing seems logical to them...).
Many types of people like in real life and different attitudes, some simply unacceptable. Me, before most SRS races I do at least 30mins private practice with AI and if I have trouble with being clean and consistent then I resign from SRS race since I could ruin someone else`s race. Doesn`t seem to be the case for most people but what can you do.
If you`re racing under your real name than you better know the track and the car well and you be prepared. If not be prepared to face the consequences.
It`s not really a hard thing to tell apart a classic racing incident from a malicious or a dangerous person. You just follow the rules and if not, if you get into a crash then prepare to drop out of simracing with real people.
If you`re having problems with people braking the rules, state your case in a protest - admin will take care of it.

(08-14-2018, 09:11 PM)Russell Sobie Wrote:  That simply isn't enough. Half the people signed up don't even know what a blue flag is, much less how to respect one. And the people that don't know are the people that need to know the most! Big Grin
I get you but imo if you`re interested in motorsport then you should know the rules already (obviously not directed at you). It`s not that hard to read the internet, plenty of info on racing rules to read. Lookie here

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/...of-racing/

No test needed, just follow the rules or face the consequences. We are grown people, are we not?
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#12
(08-08-2018, 12:33 PM)Matthias Obot Wrote:  Hey fellas,

in my time driving SRS I often see people that have absolutely no clue what it actually means to race a non-arcade sim.
Like everybody I started racing on the lower spectrum of servers but by now my rating sometimes puts me into the topsplits and it's nothing like I imagined it.
I understand that one has to learn driving by well.... driving but I do not think that this is everything people should learn (please practice offline).
I'm shocked by the way people behave on track even in the topsplit - there is no other mentality than on the "lower" servers.
What I mean by that is that people are racing like idiots through practice and quali, blocking, bumping etc. Same goes for backmarkers that begin racing you if you're about to lap them - I mean like WTF is that?
It seems to me that there are alot of people out here that have no clue about racing etiquette or the flag's meaning so thought: wouldn't it be better to make new applicants do a "basic" quiz about racing, since the admin has to activate their account manually anyways?

It is frustrating to meet disrespectful driver, I think we all can agree on that. I have had my share, but we have
to see the difference between pure evil and bad mistakes. In the Tiyota-series there are drivers who hit you clearly on purpose, to make an overtake, so I dont drive that anymore. But.... last night I participated in a 60 minutes race at Barcelona (C6R) and I had a car right behind me for about 3 laps or so. He was careful, gave me a lot if pressure, but was fair, and there was no contact. Finally he manged to overtake on the strait. 20 seconds later I hit him from the back.... So sometimes I am the idiot.....
What dud I do then? Well, because of the hit (not a big one, he stayed on track) he got a bad exit. I could have made an overtake, but I didnt, I wated until after the next turn, before I was racing him again. That’s important, if you cause trouble for other drivers, do not take advantage.

And I want to point out one more thing. SRS is free, and it is a great system. I find most drivers to be respectful,. Sometimes I get hit, and I’m pissed of, but when I watch the replay, I sometimes feel that I could have given the other car more room. 
Erik
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#13
(08-15-2018, 09:17 PM)John Gordon Wrote:  Ok, controversial post alert.

I don't think anything anyone has said anything in this thread that would make you think that we are all freaking out about our assumption that every race will be incident free. We are freaking out (if that) over the fact that there are many racers here that simply have no idea what is actually expected of them when they sim race. They have this (frankly understandable) assumption that "because video game, anything goes". In any other type of video game, I would agree with that sentiment. The concept of "gentleman's rules" in this like First Person Shooters or Fighters is some of the dumbest things I've ever seen.

Sim racing is simply different. You are expected to respect other drivers and specifically not do "anything goes". And that's what a better set of rules and/or a required test for new SRS members would at least HELP with. I'm guessing that at least a portion of the drivers that join here that think that using someone as an outside wall to assist braking into a turn would actually alter their attitude if it were made explicitly clear what their attitude SHOULD be.

We are making too many assumptions about the knowledge of the userbase.

(08-15-2018, 09:52 PM)Maciek Sobczak Wrote:  
(08-14-2018, 09:11 PM)Russell Sobie Wrote:  That simply isn't enough. Half the people signed up don't even know what a blue flag is, much less how to respect one. And the people that don't know are the people that need to know the most! Big Grin
I get you but imo if you`re interested in motorsport then you should know the rules already (obviously not directed at you). It`s not that hard to read the internet, plenty of info on racing rules to read. Lookie here

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/...of-racing/

No test needed, just follow the rules or face the consequences. We are grown people, are we not?

As I mention above... this is a simulation AND a video game. We cannot assume that anyone that installed AC or rF or pCARS or RaceRoom or [any sim here] actually has real life interest in motorsport. Guess what, guys! I have almost no interest in real life motorsport! I am a gamer that also happens to like sims! But, I'm also a bit of an anomoly among gamers in that I like to get good at games I play, and part of getting good means doing research on how to do things well. And if you do happen to scratch the surface of sim racing, you pretty quickly find that there are rules that the video game part doesn't actually handle (unlike any other video game), and if you want to play in a healthy environment, you have to learn those rules and abide.

This whole thread is literally pointing out that there are not enough rules and/or information ON THIS WEBSITE to inform new users that they can't just register for a race, hit the vertical pedal on the right, and hope for the best. Linking to some F1 rules to another website is just more proof that it is missing here.

(08-16-2018, 07:16 AM)Erik Hanoy Wrote:  It is frustrating to meet disrespectful driver, I think we all can agree on that. I have had my share, but we have
to see the difference between pure evil and bad mistakes. In the Tiyota-series there are drivers who hit you clearly on purpose, to make an overtake, so I dont drive that anymore. But.... last night I participated in a 60 minutes race at Barcelona (C6R) and I had a car right behind me for about 3 laps or so. He was careful, gave me a lot if pressure, but was fair, and there was no contact. Finally he manged to overtake on the strait. 20 seconds later I hit him from the back.... So sometimes I am the idiot.....
What dud I do then? Well, because of the hit (not a big one, he stayed on track) he got a bad exit. I could have made an overtake, but I didnt, I wated until after the next turn, before I was racing him again. That’s important, if you cause trouble for other drivers, do not take advantage.

And I want to point out one more thing. SRS is free, and it is a great system. I find most drivers to be respectful,. Sometimes I get hit, and I’m pissed of, but when I watch the replay, I sometimes feel that I could have given the other car more room. 

Good on you. Now... if we just had a way to flip the switch in everyone's brain when they sign up for SRS to act as you do. Or at least inform them that there is a switch to flip. Like more specific rules of conduct... or an informative quiz, perhaps. Smile
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#14
(08-16-2018, 02:00 PM)Russell Sobie Wrote:  
(08-15-2018, 09:17 PM)John Gordon Wrote:  Ok, controversial post alert.

The concept of "gentleman's rules" in this like First Person Shooters or Fighters is some of the dumbest things I've ever seen.


With all due of respect, some might say the same of these rules in Sim racing. It all comes down to what certain people take seriously and what not. There are substantial sums of money to be won in professional FPS game events. 

Sim racing in AC is a hobby. Some are more fanatic than others, there are people who take this very seriously, but it's still a hobby. For me personally, it is still too far from reality to actually call it "simulation".

I am one of those ppl who want to take simracing as seriously as possible. When I accidentally run into someone, I am genuinly gutted and when someone runs into me then -for a few seconds- I act like the world has done me the biggest injustice possible. But then I move on. Learn to live with the reality that some people don't take this as seriously as you and I do. They do however, have just as much right to be here as anyone else... Until proven otherwise
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#15
(08-16-2018, 02:51 PM)Dennis Ipenburg Wrote:  
(08-16-2018, 02:00 PM)Russell Sobie Wrote:  
(08-15-2018, 09:17 PM)John Gordon Wrote:  Ok, controversial post alert.
Sim racing in AC is a hobby. Some are more fanatic than others, there are people who take this very seriously, but it's still a hobby. For me personally, it is still too far from reality to actually call it "simulation".

I am one of those ppl who want to take simracing as seriously as possible. When I accidentally run into someone, I am genuinly gutted and when someone runs into me then -for a few seconds- I act like the world has done me the biggest injustice possible. But then I move on. Learn to live with the reality that some people don't take this as seriously as you and I do. They do however, have just as much right to be here as anyone else... Until proven otherwise

You seem to miss the point. It's not about if they are allowed to be here or not. Of course everybody interested in SimRacing/Motorsports/Cars or whatever is more than welcome to join and get to know the beauty of racing.
It's more about the people who are ignorant regarding the rules. That's the entire point. Let's take Football as an example: every kid can take a ball and kick it around - without obeying proper rules nobody would say the kid is playing football, it simply plays ball. And if people here just want to kick the ball around, maybe they should look for another field to play on, since I very much like to play proper football.
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#16
(08-16-2018, 02:51 PM)Dennis Ipenburg Wrote:  
(08-16-2018, 02:00 PM)Russell Sobie Wrote:  
(08-15-2018, 09:17 PM)John Gordon Wrote:  Ok, controversial post alert.

The concept of "gentleman's rules" in this like First Person Shooters or Fighters is some of the dumbest things I've ever seen.

With all due of respect, some might say the same of these rules in Sim racing. It all comes down to what certain people take seriously and what not. There are substantial sums of money to be won in professional FPS game events. 

Sim racing in AC is a hobby. Some are more fanatic than others, there are people who take this very seriously, but it's still a hobby. For me personally, it is still too far from reality to actually call it "simulation".

I am one of those ppl who want to take simracing as seriously as possible. When I accidentally run into someone, I am genuinly gutted and when someone runs into me then -for a few seconds- I act like the world has done me the biggest injustice possible. But then I move on. Learn to live with the reality that some people don't take this as seriously as you and I do. They do however, have just as much right to be here as anyone else... Until proven otherwise

Firstly, type below the quote for legibility. Smile

Secondly, I think I was making the same exact point you are here: some people literally DO think that "gentleman's rules are dumb in Assetto Corsa/rFactor2/Automobolista/Whatever".

The problem is that the people that think that they are dumb are not welcome with racers who do not think they are not dumb. The two cannot exist on the same track and have a clean race by the standards of those who understand and abide by the rules. My hope (and this thread) is about educating those that either think these rules are dumb or are literally ignorant that there are rules in the first place.

(08-16-2018, 03:33 PM)Matthias Obot Wrote:  You seem to miss the point. It's not about if they are allowed to be here or not. Of course everybody interested in SimRacing/Motorsports/Cars or whatever is more than welcome to join and get to know the beauty of racing.
It's more about the people who are ignorant regarding the rules. That's the entire point. Let's take Football as an example: every kid can take a ball and kick it around - without obeying proper rules nobody would say the kid is playing football, it simply plays ball. And if people here just want to kick the ball around, maybe they should look for another field to play on, since I very much like to play proper football.

Yes, exactly this.

And further, if the kid kicking the ball around wants to learn how to play proper football, he can learn the rules and play along quite easily. The problem is that "learning the rules" in the case of sim racing is that those rules are not adequately communicated on this very website.
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#17
With all due of respect, I truly think the 2 of you are missing the point. This is a game...GAME. nothing more, nothing less. Just because you (or we, I consider myself 1 of the more "serious" drivers even though my stats tell a slightly different story) take this GAME very seriously, doesn't mean that we are allowed to expect other gamers to take this just as seriously as us.

It's very simple. More than 20 incidents in a race result in an auto-ban. Protests will be looked at by SRS on a case-by-case basis. If less serious simracers behave within these rules of SRS, then it's done! Then you have to adjust your expectations of other drivers here.

The alternative is, that you set up your own very-serious-simracers platform, where only very serious simracers are allowed.

1 more thing - you keep talking about clean races. What is the last race you've watched (either live or on TV) that was actually 100% clean? I personally can't remember one. There's always something happening somewhere on the track. That's racing. And hey.... those are actual, professional drivers.
I really believe you set your expectations too high
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#18
I fully don’t expect everyone to take it at the same level of seriousness. If we were talking about behaviour in public servers then yes that would be expecting too much, but this platform is a niche of a niche of a niche, so I expect the people that come to have: enough skill to not ruin others race due to constant mistakes; enough mental capacity to realise when they have run out of skill and therefore not push so hard; and the common god damn decency to show a basic level of respect to other racers. I don’t think that is asking too much, you don’t need to be an alien to have these three, I have seen guys 10% off the pace still be totally respectful and not cause issues. And also seen very fast people behave disgustingly.

It’s not about whether you are good at simracing. Comes down to: are you a decent person, or a foul disrespectful piece of ******* ****.
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#19
(08-17-2018, 12:34 PM)Dennis Ipenburg Wrote:  With all due of respect, I truly think the 2 of you are missing the point. This is a game...GAME. nothing more, nothing less.  Just because you (or we, I consider myself 1 of the more "serious" drivers even though my stats tell a slightly different story) take this GAME very seriously, doesn't mean that we are allowed to expect other gamers to take this just as seriously as us.

It's very simple. More than 20 incidents in a race result in an auto-ban. Protests will be looked at by SRS on a case-by-case basis.  If less serious simracers behave within these rules of SRS, then it's done! Then you have to adjust your expectations of other drivers here.

The alternative is, that you set up your own very-serious-simracers platform, where only very serious simracers are allowed.

1 more thing - you keep talking about clean races. What is the last race you've watched (either live or on TV) that was actually 100% clean? I personally can't remember one. There's always something happening somewhere on the track. That's racing. And hey.... those are actual, professional drivers.
I really believe you set your expectations too high

I agree with you to a point - none of us really have the righ to decide what SRS is or how serious it is.

Now that said, the admins did state the rules on the SRS page and they do issue penalties to those who, you guessed it, brake the rules.

If you do not like that then the alternative for you is to run some other league or go pub racing. Nobody forces you to race SRS.

I love SRS because I never met so many like minded simracers. It is pleasure racing against 90% of those folks, even if most of them pass me on the track. We all have fun, that is the whole point. Now if SRS rules make that point more probable of coming true then I`m all for it.
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#20
Are you saying that you do not expect drivers near you on turn 1 to leave space if you are along side? Or that you do not expect people to refrain from throwing a PIT maneuver at you the moment they get a chance? You are saying that this is a game and nothing else, but I don't think you actually believe that as you have stated it. My expectations are not too high. My expectation is that many do not know they should be behaving differently, or that they don't care. The former can be educated, and the latter can get banned.

If sim racing is a game and nothing more, then it is the most poorly designed game ever created. It doesn't prevent bad behavior at all. In fact, it greatly rewards it. Someone in your way? Put them into a wall and destroy their suspension. Do that 22 more times and you get a podium! You can even let the people fast than you lap you, take them out on the next lap... and still cross the finish line first! Super!

Sim racing games are more just a game because they require externally enforced rules to be followed so that other people can exist in the same game space. If this were not true, there wouldn't be a Protest Form. Or the Regulation page, for that matter (as sparse as it is).

And that is what we are discussing: The fact that the externally enforced rules are not communicated well enough to the user base. If they were communicated well enough to the userbase, would that make every race 100% clean? No. Would it help?

...

It wouldn't hurt!
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